1 00:00:22,810 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:31,540 --> 00:00:27,400 yes it's the skeptic zone episode number 3 00:00:34,130 --> 00:00:31,550 174 for the eighteenth of februari 2012 4 00:00:39,590 --> 00:00:34,140 Richard Saunders here with you from 5 00:00:43,510 --> 00:00:39,600 Sydney Australia on this week's show we 6 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:43,520 continually story the continuing saga of 7 00:00:53,090 --> 00:00:47,690 Andre Rossi's ecat machine the 8 00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:53,100 coldfusion marvel or is it in the past 9 00:00:58,880 --> 00:00:55,920 week our very own dick smith patron of 10 00:01:01,729 --> 00:00:58,890 australian skeptics put down the big 11 00:01:04,179 --> 00:01:01,739 challenge made the big offer to Andre 12 00:01:07,609 --> 00:01:04,189 Rossi if he could demonstrate his a 13 00:01:10,399 --> 00:01:07,619 coldfusion machine dick smith would give 14 00:01:12,890 --> 00:01:10,409 him a million dollars sounds like a 15 00:01:14,810 --> 00:01:12,900 pretty good deal to me do you know and 16 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:14,820 ray rossi accept the challenge we'll 17 00:01:20,330 --> 00:01:16,950 find out later in the show when we chat 18 00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:20,340 to chief investigator Ian Bryce but 19 00:01:27,590 --> 00:01:22,710 kicking off today's showed top of the 20 00:01:29,780 --> 00:01:27,600 show I talked to a artist from Newcastle 21 00:01:34,039 --> 00:01:29,790 which is just up north of Sydney paul 22 00:01:36,020 --> 00:01:34,049 o'brien who recently has been painting 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:36,030 my portrait which is very flattering for 24 00:01:41,929 --> 00:01:38,850 the archibald prize I went up to 25 00:01:43,910 --> 00:01:41,939 Newcastle to have a sitting fourth for 26 00:01:46,670 --> 00:01:43,920 the portrait and I took the opportunity 27 00:01:50,510 --> 00:01:46,680 to have a chat to pull very interesting 28 00:01:52,999 --> 00:01:50,520 man also a registered nurse and over a 29 00:01:55,999 --> 00:01:53,009 couple of beers our conversation sort of 30 00:01:59,450 --> 00:01:56,009 rain used around a bit but basically 31 00:02:04,219 --> 00:01:59,460 focuses on nursing and some of the 32 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:04,229 strange aspects and woo unfortunately 33 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:07,610 that's infiltrated many aspects of 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:10,170 Nursing I think you'll find this a very 35 00:02:14,369 --> 00:02:12,370 interesting sort of chatter 36 00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:14,379 there's a couple of announcements I'll 37 00:02:20,550 --> 00:02:17,920 put your way the foundation beyond 38 00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:20,560 belief or foundation beyond belief dot 39 00:02:29,190 --> 00:02:25,360 org slash fbb Australia it's a 40 00:02:33,119 --> 00:02:29,200 charitable fund for secular humanists in 41 00:02:36,059 --> 00:02:33,129 Australia worth checking out I guess 42 00:02:40,710 --> 00:02:36,069 it's the sort of in reply or the answer 43 00:02:43,890 --> 00:02:40,720 to all these religiously based charities 44 00:02:48,390 --> 00:02:43,900 and goodwill organizations and what have 45 00:02:50,789 --> 00:02:48,400 you foundation beyond belief dot org and 46 00:02:55,039 --> 00:02:50,799 if you're in Australia then backslash 47 00:02:58,229 --> 00:02:55,049 fbb Australia check that one out and 48 00:03:03,390 --> 00:02:58,239 some news of something I dearly like to 49 00:03:07,289 --> 00:03:03,400 attend myself skeptical 2012 in the Bay 50 00:03:10,229 --> 00:03:07,299 Area in berkeley yes my friend yell men 51 00:03:12,259 --> 00:03:10,239 chant the father of our reporter penny 52 00:03:15,390 --> 00:03:12,269 Chen has brought this to my attention in 53 00:03:20,550 --> 00:03:15,400 berkeley on the twenty first of april 54 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:20,560 this here skep decal 2012 now the 55 00:03:24,270 --> 00:03:22,450 website if you're in the bay area and 56 00:03:25,530 --> 00:03:24,280 you want to check this out and i tell 57 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:25,540 you what if i was there i'd be there 58 00:03:38,970 --> 00:03:33,930 with bells on www sk EPT i see al co n 59 00:03:41,390 --> 00:03:38,980 skeptical con dot org and a really great 60 00:03:44,339 --> 00:03:41,400 lineup of speakers they have this year 61 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:44,349 berkeley easy to get to all you have to 62 00:03:50,129 --> 00:03:46,930 do is jump on but there bay area rapid 63 00:03:52,409 --> 00:03:50,139 transport system there and you'll end up 64 00:03:56,759 --> 00:03:52,419 at berkeley on the twenty first of april 65 00:03:59,849 --> 00:03:56,769 to attend this wonderful convention 66 00:04:02,129 --> 00:03:59,859 berkeley doubletree hotel same side as 67 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:02,139 last year says the website which i'm 68 00:04:08,460 --> 00:04:05,410 looking at right now speakers schedule 69 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:08,470 and tickets and other information on the 70 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:12,609 website if i was there i would be there 71 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:15,250 yeah now before we get stuck into the 72 00:04:21,390 --> 00:04:18,370 show it's just on Twitter a little while 73 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:21,400 ago and one of the hashtags I are 74 00:04:28,670 --> 00:04:24,450 keeping my search is 75 00:04:31,090 --> 00:04:28,680 tag stop avian stop Australian 76 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:31,100 vaccination network the facebook group 77 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:34,910 now apparently there was just today an 78 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:39,030 anti-vaccination talk up in queensland 79 00:04:46,970 --> 00:04:44,310 here in australia and some of the things 80 00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:46,980 I've been seeing about this are truly 81 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:50,870 horrifying by these deluded clowns and 82 00:04:56,150 --> 00:04:53,370 if you go to that hashtag and have a 83 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:56,160 look on some of the posts that were 84 00:05:01,880 --> 00:04:58,730 posted today the eighteenth of februari 85 00:05:06,650 --> 00:05:01,890 there is a leaflet that's come to my 86 00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:06,660 attention which is just beyond belief 87 00:05:12,830 --> 00:05:10,320 it's a picture weather looks like a 88 00:05:15,290 --> 00:05:12,840 starving african child in the background 89 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:15,300 and in the foreground holding a needle 90 00:05:20,810 --> 00:05:17,850 the syringe with a big skull and 91 00:05:24,050 --> 00:05:20,820 crossbones is Bill Gates with an 92 00:05:27,350 --> 00:05:24,060 evil-looking smirk and grin in on his 93 00:05:30,350 --> 00:05:27,360 face now say what you like about the 94 00:05:32,870 --> 00:05:30,360 Windows operating system we regard Bill 95 00:05:34,940 --> 00:05:32,880 Gates is a truly wonderful man a 96 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:34,950 wonderful example for everybody of them 97 00:05:42,220 --> 00:05:38,250 the amount of time and effort and sheer 98 00:05:45,530 --> 00:05:42,230 volume of money that he's donated to 99 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:45,540 vaccinations so the anti-vaxxers are 100 00:05:51,530 --> 00:05:48,330 painting him is some sort of laughing 101 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:51,540 villain it's just incredible anyway have 102 00:05:57,250 --> 00:05:54,810 a look at hashtag stop avn and i 103 00:06:00,470 --> 00:05:57,260 recommend you follow that hashtag too oh 104 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:00,480 well on that interesting note I'm going 105 00:06:07,060 --> 00:06:02,850 to run downstairs and enjoy that lovely 106 00:06:28,469 --> 00:06:07,070 cup of insert your drink of choice here 107 00:06:35,140 --> 00:06:31,809 I'm in beautiful New Castle yes home of 108 00:06:37,270 --> 00:06:35,150 me know me not in fact and I'm sitting 109 00:06:40,270 --> 00:06:37,280 here in the waterfront here looking over 110 00:06:43,469 --> 00:06:40,280 the new castle harbour I've come to 111 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:43,479 Newcastle which is just north of Sydney 112 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:45,710 something very flattering for me I must 113 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:48,110 say I'm having my portrait painted in 114 00:06:52,209 --> 00:06:50,210 fact that it's been painted by a local 115 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:52,219 artist paul o'brien hello Paul how are 116 00:06:59,580 --> 00:06:55,610 you I'm quite well we're we're here the 117 00:07:02,649 --> 00:06:59,590 waterfront enjoying a lovely beer and 118 00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:02,659 the honeysuckle hotel at the honeysuckle 119 00:07:07,899 --> 00:07:05,529 hotel it's very modern very newest 120 00:07:11,740 --> 00:07:07,909 lovely sea breeze you can probably hear 121 00:07:12,879 --> 00:07:11,750 it on the microphone but you you 122 00:07:16,149 --> 00:07:12,889 straighten is an interesting fellow 123 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:16,159 because you're um I'm a guy who gets a 124 00:07:20,619 --> 00:07:17,810 lot of information from The Skeptical 125 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:20,629 world from podcasts listen to them all 126 00:07:28,809 --> 00:07:26,830 hopefully yes they'd been a major 127 00:07:30,339 --> 00:07:28,819 enrichment of my life to discover the 128 00:07:32,649 --> 00:07:30,349 podcast were all over the last probably 129 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:32,659 three years and there's just more and 130 00:07:37,689 --> 00:07:35,960 more of them yeah I agree that there so 131 00:07:39,820 --> 00:07:37,699 many out there to choose from it's hard 132 00:07:43,690 --> 00:07:39,830 to keep up it's very hard to keep up I 133 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:43,700 find I sample a lot to come back to the 134 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:47,570 the old favorites well I mean we can 135 00:07:51,490 --> 00:07:49,370 mention SG use a favor I think of 136 00:07:54,370 --> 00:07:51,500 everybody and skip tide of course and 137 00:07:56,470 --> 00:07:54,380 end your own new obsession yes they're 138 00:07:58,600 --> 00:07:56,480 the main the the main three that I have 139 00:08:00,340 --> 00:07:58,610 listened to all along but there are many 140 00:08:02,410 --> 00:08:00,350 others also listen to some of the 141 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:02,420 Atheist podcast coming out of you 142 00:08:06,310 --> 00:08:04,730 interstates just course I'll listen to a 143 00:08:09,610 --> 00:08:06,320 podcast doesn't necessarily agree with 144 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:09,620 everything that you say but you've got 145 00:08:12,940 --> 00:08:10,970 to know what's out there before you can 146 00:08:14,830 --> 00:08:12,950 make your opinion so I like the sample a 147 00:08:16,390 --> 00:08:14,840 bit of everything I think I think 148 00:08:18,340 --> 00:08:16,400 they're a wonderful thing and it's the 149 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:18,350 strange for me to say it since I'm a 150 00:08:23,890 --> 00:08:21,290 produced one nevertheless if I can stand 151 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:23,900 back and talk to somebody who also 152 00:08:29,950 --> 00:08:27,290 enjoys listening to podcasts myself I've 153 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:29,960 learned so much over the years by 154 00:08:34,030 --> 00:08:31,610 listening to skip toyed by listening to 155 00:08:35,740 --> 00:08:34,040 the skeptics guide to the universe and 156 00:08:38,740 --> 00:08:35,750 when my reporters send in various 157 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:38,750 interviews to the skeptic zone of course 158 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:40,130 I think oh wow that's very interesting 159 00:08:44,790 --> 00:08:42,650 and i unlearn look that way would you 160 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:44,800 say that that's your primary source of 161 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:48,050 information these days about yes 162 00:08:56,770 --> 00:08:50,540 skeptical matters yes I well I still do 163 00:08:59,020 --> 00:08:56,780 read a lot of various books the last one 164 00:09:01,720 --> 00:08:59,030 I read was a link which I thought was 165 00:09:03,580 --> 00:09:01,730 brilliant but yes but the good thing 166 00:09:05,070 --> 00:09:03,590 about the podcast is of course you can 167 00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:05,080 do something else and still get your 168 00:09:10,090 --> 00:09:08,300 your hit particularly as you say I'm 169 00:09:12,370 --> 00:09:10,100 painting your portrait I can paint and 170 00:09:14,530 --> 00:09:12,380 have podcasts on in the background once 171 00:09:16,590 --> 00:09:14,540 upon a time I would play music but now I 172 00:09:19,420 --> 00:09:16,600 tend to play podcast or audio books and 173 00:09:20,770 --> 00:09:19,430 you can you can do your reading so to 174 00:09:24,190 --> 00:09:20,780 speak at the same time as you're doing 175 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:24,200 doing something else and it's I find it 176 00:09:27,910 --> 00:09:25,490 very helpful actually because you can 177 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:27,920 actually disassociate from what you're 178 00:09:32,020 --> 00:09:29,690 doing and listening to them to whatever 179 00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:32,030 is on the podcast but you still produce 180 00:09:35,260 --> 00:09:33,680 the the work in front of you without 181 00:09:37,390 --> 00:09:35,270 getting too stressed about it so I 182 00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:37,400 actually like this in podcast I think 183 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:39,200 that's the same as I know a lot of 184 00:09:43,630 --> 00:09:40,910 people listen to this podcast when 185 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:43,640 they're they're driving it so they load 186 00:09:49,139 --> 00:09:45,490 up their mp3 player or whatever 187 00:09:51,389 --> 00:09:49,149 they do and even as we speak right now 188 00:09:53,690 --> 00:09:51,399 there are people commuting and driving 189 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:53,700 in their cars doing something fully 190 00:09:57,660 --> 00:09:55,570 concentrating on their driving but 191 00:09:58,829 --> 00:09:57,670 listening to to what we have to say well 192 00:10:01,530 --> 00:09:58,839 one of the problems with that is of 193 00:10:04,110 --> 00:10:01,540 course I it's just as you also now I am 194 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:04,120 a registered nurse and amongst our 195 00:10:08,460 --> 00:10:05,890 things and I work in a community setting 196 00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:08,470 now and I have the podcasts on in the 197 00:10:13,410 --> 00:10:10,540 car I play them through the adapter for 198 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:13,420 the car the problem is you invariably 199 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:15,730 want to sit listen there's something in 200 00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:17,350 here it all the way through and say 201 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:18,700 you've got a pic where you actually got 202 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:22,510 a decent distance to drive before 203 00:10:26,220 --> 00:10:24,310 putting something of interest on because 204 00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:26,230 you often got to stop halfway through it 205 00:10:31,260 --> 00:10:29,920 and go and put your work face on and do 206 00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:31,270 what you've got to do and then come back 207 00:10:36,810 --> 00:10:34,600 to the podcast but doing the work I do I 208 00:10:39,510 --> 00:10:36,820 find that this thing the podcast is also 209 00:10:42,510 --> 00:10:39,520 a good distraction a nurse of course as 210 00:10:47,010 --> 00:10:42,520 well as being an accomplished artist and 211 00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:47,020 you are part of the facebook group as a 212 00:10:55,079 --> 00:10:53,260 zima and nurses there's SD skeptic 213 00:10:57,090 --> 00:10:55,089 nursing skeptically I haven't been 214 00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:57,100 involved with it actively for a long 215 00:11:02,010 --> 00:10:59,760 time and part of it I always read the 216 00:11:04,199 --> 00:11:02,020 posts and whatever they come through to 217 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:04,209 me but I i just find i don't have the 218 00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:06,850 time to spend a lot of time on it yeah 219 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:09,279 and most of the people are so 220 00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:11,050 knowledgeable about the areas that they 221 00:11:15,210 --> 00:11:13,120 they comment on I feel a bit intimidated 222 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:15,220 to put my two bobs worth in with FF 223 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:17,529 doing some research boat by which time 224 00:11:21,630 --> 00:11:18,970 I've done the research in the moments 225 00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:21,640 gone a very dear friend of ours jobe 226 00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:23,350 enema who's a reporter on the skeptics 227 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:25,600 and of course is one of the people 228 00:11:31,260 --> 00:11:28,510 behind that the facebook group and I I 229 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:31,270 must admit I sort of snuck in as being a 230 00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:33,250 member of that Facebook group on very 231 00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:35,680 dubious sort of credentials because I 232 00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:38,320 played a nurse on television well I 233 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:40,390 suppose it there's to several people on 234 00:11:45,690 --> 00:11:42,130 earth who aren't registered nurses I 235 00:11:48,569 --> 00:11:45,700 suppose but yes I've god I'm actually on 236 00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:48,579 the fourteenth of this month 42 februari 237 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:51,300 1972 I started so this is my 40th year 238 00:11:55,660 --> 00:11:54,490 I'm a triple certificate under the old 239 00:11:58,650 --> 00:11:55,670 system 240 00:12:01,390 --> 00:11:58,660 then I did the diploma and then a degree 241 00:12:03,340 --> 00:12:01,400 I've done quite a bit of Education in 242 00:12:04,810 --> 00:12:03,350 the past though I'm back on the 243 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:04,820 so-called on the tools now 244 00:12:10,780 --> 00:12:08,270 administration's not my forte but but I 245 00:12:12,010 --> 00:12:10,790 actually yeah let's kill the 15 and give 246 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:12,020 them a traitor's bricklayer before I 247 00:12:16,780 --> 00:12:14,330 started there you go now in all your 248 00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:16,790 years of being a nurse of course you 249 00:12:22,090 --> 00:12:18,080 must have seen a lot of changes but 250 00:12:27,130 --> 00:12:22,100 let's think about the what you've 251 00:12:31,810 --> 00:12:27,140 discovered or seen if we look at all med 252 00:12:34,410 --> 00:12:31,820 and Wu or naturopathy and energy 253 00:12:37,180 --> 00:12:34,420 medicine have you seen that increase I 254 00:12:39,810 --> 00:12:37,190 don't about increase with we were 255 00:12:42,460 --> 00:12:39,820 talking earlier about I'm quite 256 00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,470 disillusioned about the level of war 257 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:44,000 lack of understanding of it within 258 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:46,850 registered nurses the the Society of 259 00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:50,210 registered nurses this seems to be not a 260 00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:54,350 lot of genuine understanding of what 261 00:12:59,260 --> 00:12:57,110 alternative medicines really are and as 262 00:13:02,290 --> 00:12:59,270 you know we do a bit with palliative 263 00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:02,300 care and whatever and you're often in a 264 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:03,980 quandary as to whether or not you should 265 00:13:12,910 --> 00:13:09,170 dissuade people from taking treatments 266 00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:12,920 or looking at avenues of treatment that 267 00:13:17,740 --> 00:13:15,230 you know are probably a waste of time 268 00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:17,750 rossum invariably a waste of time but is 269 00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:21,920 giving the person hope and you you know 270 00:13:26,350 --> 00:13:23,990 on an intellectual level that you should 271 00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:26,360 dissuade them from it but when you 272 00:13:29,620 --> 00:13:28,160 confronted with the reality of somebody 273 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:29,630 who is desperate it's a very very 274 00:13:34,510 --> 00:13:32,570 difficult thing to to take hope away 275 00:13:37,449 --> 00:13:34,520 from the moat I always remember a 276 00:13:40,449 --> 00:13:37,459 statement from Elisabeth kubler-ross 277 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:40,459 from death and dying a book which has 278 00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:42,410 now become quite criticized on various 279 00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:44,240 things about Google rossman as I believe 280 00:13:48,730 --> 00:13:46,089 in reincarnation of various other things 281 00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:48,740 but when she was speaking to people 282 00:13:55,329 --> 00:13:53,600 about what their prospects were she 283 00:13:57,669 --> 00:13:55,339 would say you've got ten percent chance 284 00:13:59,259 --> 00:13:57,679 of an improvement or ten percent of this 285 00:14:01,480 --> 00:13:59,269 and when people added it up they 286 00:14:03,669 --> 00:14:01,490 realized that she only gave them ninety 287 00:14:05,109 --> 00:14:03,679 percent and people say what about the 288 00:14:08,139 --> 00:14:05,119 other thin percentage she'd say well 289 00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:08,149 that's for hope one of the things that 290 00:14:16,179 --> 00:14:11,209 are noise me I must say and you hear it 291 00:14:18,519 --> 00:14:16,189 so often is people will will you hear 292 00:14:20,410 --> 00:14:18,529 reports all the doctors gave up all hope 293 00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:20,420 all the doctors told me had only lived 294 00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:21,980 two more months all the doctors said 295 00:14:26,369 --> 00:14:23,600 there was nothing more they could do 296 00:14:29,109 --> 00:14:26,379 with me and always strikes me is that's 297 00:14:30,999 --> 00:14:29,119 an emotional response I can't believe 298 00:14:33,549 --> 00:14:31,009 doctors would actually tell a patient oh 299 00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:33,559 we can't do anything for for you now 300 00:14:37,119 --> 00:14:35,929 we've given up all hope well look I 301 00:14:38,799 --> 00:14:37,129 can't say that there are some 302 00:14:40,540 --> 00:14:38,809 insensitive doctors out there but I must 303 00:14:44,439 --> 00:14:40,550 admit from my own experience the vast 304 00:14:46,289 --> 00:14:44,449 majority of anybody involved in the 305 00:14:51,179 --> 00:14:46,299 caring professions wouldn't be that 306 00:14:57,069 --> 00:14:54,999 yeah but on the whole mostly people who 307 00:15:00,590 --> 00:14:57,079 choose to work in those sort of areas 308 00:15:04,009 --> 00:15:00,600 that deal with such 309 00:15:09,199 --> 00:15:04,019 primal parts of our life like beginning 310 00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:09,209 in the end are sensitive but look there 311 00:15:13,850 --> 00:15:10,560 mate it's probably one of these things 312 00:15:15,439 --> 00:15:13,860 where people have heard what's being 313 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:15,449 said to them through the filter of their 314 00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:17,610 anxiety or whatever and perhaps 315 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:19,440 misconstrue that I would hope I 316 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:23,040 certainly haven't come across any many 317 00:15:27,079 --> 00:15:25,170 situations anyway where that sort of 318 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:27,089 brutality would be used in the 319 00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:31,410 discussion about what invariably follows 320 00:15:37,879 --> 00:15:34,920 is our but I went to see XYZ magical 321 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:37,889 healer and now I'm cured or now I've got 322 00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:39,690 better hope sore or whatever the case 323 00:15:48,139 --> 00:15:45,660 may be yeah they've usually also also 324 00:15:49,939 --> 00:15:48,149 had quite substantial conservative 325 00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:49,949 medicine as well good point which they 326 00:15:56,420 --> 00:15:52,880 don't know but I but you do also have 327 00:15:59,150 --> 00:15:56,430 spontaneous remission yes I have a very 328 00:16:02,269 --> 00:15:59,160 good friend who had quite the advanced 329 00:16:07,059 --> 00:16:02,279 breast cancer who apart from a little 330 00:16:11,629 --> 00:16:07,069 bit of relaxation exercises and and 331 00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:11,639 conservative medicine of course did 332 00:16:16,129 --> 00:16:14,310 actually have a complete remission and 333 00:16:21,550 --> 00:16:16,139 she's still in remission many years 334 00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:21,560 later it happens yeah yeah and what also 335 00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:25,279 happens of course is that modern 336 00:16:29,230 --> 00:16:27,110 they're there we say Western medicine 337 00:16:34,179 --> 00:16:29,240 that I hate the term delicious called 338 00:16:37,869 --> 00:16:34,189 medicine does and again I hesitate the 339 00:16:40,780 --> 00:16:37,879 word to use the word cure people and if 340 00:16:43,420 --> 00:16:40,790 I use a personal anecdote of course I 341 00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:43,430 think to my mother who had some cancers 342 00:16:50,170 --> 00:16:47,180 in her life and years ago 25 years ago 343 00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:50,180 and indeed 10 years ago to boat bouts of 344 00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:53,360 cancer went through the complete range 345 00:16:58,809 --> 00:16:56,059 of what we know is medicine modern 346 00:17:00,730 --> 00:16:58,819 medicine scientifically evidence-based 347 00:17:04,990 --> 00:17:00,740 medicine chemotherapy the rest of it and 348 00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:05,000 she's alive and fit and well and it's an 349 00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:06,980 odd thing to say but I'm speaking as a 350 00:17:11,169 --> 00:17:08,959 personal anecdote and I know from 351 00:17:15,340 --> 00:17:11,179 skeptical experience that anecdotes do 352 00:17:17,529 --> 00:17:15,350 not equal evidence however I can't but 353 00:17:20,740 --> 00:17:17,539 not another comment of the fact that I 354 00:17:23,409 --> 00:17:20,750 am of the opinion that my mother would 355 00:17:27,610 --> 00:17:23,419 certainly be dead if it wasn't for what 356 00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:27,620 we know is modern medicine well I hope 357 00:17:31,210 --> 00:17:29,240 so that's like the whole aim of it all 358 00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:31,220 it's an interesting thing I'm trying to 359 00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:32,960 think of where I I heard at some time 360 00:17:37,870 --> 00:17:36,049 ago where I heard an argument being put 361 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:37,880 forward that in fact modern medicine is 362 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:40,730 the alternative medicine my wagon modern 363 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:42,530 medicines is the alternative medicine 364 00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:44,210 because for thousands and thousands and 365 00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:46,070 thousands of years all we had was the 366 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:49,820 witch doctor and herbalism and and and 367 00:17:53,860 --> 00:17:52,250 whatever as what we would call 368 00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:53,870 alternative medicine and it was only 369 00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:56,960 when certain intelligent individuals 370 00:18:02,100 --> 00:17:59,840 started looking for patterns and doing 371 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:02,110 research what we would call research and 372 00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:04,850 refining the various treatments to come 373 00:18:10,690 --> 00:18:08,480 up with efficacious treatments as 374 00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:10,700 opposed to effective treatments like 375 00:18:14,919 --> 00:18:13,039 then you an effective treatment can be a 376 00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:14,929 placebo can be effective but it's not 377 00:18:19,899 --> 00:18:18,049 efficacious an efficacious treatment it 378 00:18:21,850 --> 00:18:19,909 you can give to somebody who's in a coma 379 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:21,860 if they've got an infection and you'll 380 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:24,770 hopefully resolve the infection an 381 00:18:28,810 --> 00:18:26,690 effective treatment will only work in a 382 00:18:31,299 --> 00:18:28,820 placebo effect if somebody's conscious 383 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:31,309 and has expectations yeah yeah if it 384 00:18:34,530 --> 00:18:32,370 does work 385 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:34,540 if all you're looking at is making 386 00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:36,610 somebody feel better that doesn't 387 00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:39,660 necessarily mean a cure so the 388 00:18:44,130 --> 00:18:42,310 interesting difference there is between 389 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:44,140 an effective treatment and an 390 00:18:51,390 --> 00:18:49,450 efficacious treatment the the mindset 391 00:18:53,970 --> 00:18:51,400 the people bring to the treatment is is 392 00:18:55,620 --> 00:18:53,980 important there's more and more research 393 00:18:57,690 --> 00:18:55,630 sort of going into this that you can 394 00:19:00,030 --> 00:18:57,700 actually give an effective treatment 395 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:00,040 that that resolves an issue but people 396 00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:02,890 be unhappy with it in yet they'll go to 397 00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:08,500 a herbalist and basically what's his 398 00:19:13,980 --> 00:19:11,470 name from Apple the died Steve Jobs 399 00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:13,990 Steve Jobs y se me when often had his 400 00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:15,760 treatments and was all in favor of them 401 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:18,460 had he had proper treatment he'd be he 402 00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:20,470 might well have been resolved the kid it 403 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:21,910 was quite treatable in the early stages 404 00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:24,490 but I don't know that he ever criticized 405 00:19:32,550 --> 00:19:26,500 they'll the so-called alt medicine that 406 00:19:35,370 --> 00:19:32,560 he had yeah again is that cognitive 407 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:35,380 dissonance comes in with and yeah it's 408 00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:38,170 an interesting phenomenon that and it 409 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:40,870 also part of medicine is the person's 410 00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:43,330 mental attitude to as well as what you 411 00:19:48,730 --> 00:19:46,360 actually true physically I'm I've been 412 00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:51,220 that a positive outlook is is very 413 00:19:55,330 --> 00:19:53,600 important to help you get through when 414 00:19:58,030 --> 00:19:55,340 you're dealing with an illness to get 415 00:20:02,620 --> 00:19:58,040 you know to make your day is happier to 416 00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,630 get you there but even even the 417 00:20:08,110 --> 00:20:04,880 brightest outlook you can have will not 418 00:20:11,890 --> 00:20:08,120 alter your cells and destroy the cancer 419 00:20:14,590 --> 00:20:11,900 oh look i'm not expert and they do say 420 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:14,600 that anxiety and stress can affect your 421 00:20:20,380 --> 00:20:16,610 immune system which can have an effect 422 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:20,390 on but again you come to the effective 423 00:20:27,490 --> 00:20:22,850 treatments as opposed to the efficacious 424 00:20:31,210 --> 00:20:27,500 treatment yes I think you need a bit 425 00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:31,220 more than positive waves as catch-22 is 426 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:35,390 a cat now Kelly's heroes make with the 427 00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:39,170 positive waves moriarty but of course 428 00:20:47,220 --> 00:20:43,520 yes not only that you've got to look at 429 00:20:50,350 --> 00:20:47,230 the difference a with pain and suffering 430 00:20:52,090 --> 00:20:50,360 you can have pain and reduce the 431 00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:52,100 suffering by your mental approach to 432 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:54,710 things the suffering aspect of it is 433 00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:56,210 very much to do with the way you 434 00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:01,520 approach a situation and that really is 435 00:21:05,169 --> 00:21:02,809 the thing I think you're looking at is 436 00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,179 making the best of every becoming an 437 00:21:10,030 --> 00:21:07,840 existentialist I suppose yes so is 438 00:21:11,860 --> 00:21:10,040 putting the best face on it no matter 439 00:21:14,650 --> 00:21:11,870 what dealing with it as best as you can 440 00:21:15,549 --> 00:21:14,660 yes and let's look it's complex and you 441 00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:15,559 of course you're doing with different 442 00:21:20,649 --> 00:21:17,780 personalities bring different baggies to 443 00:21:22,690 --> 00:21:20,659 every situation you know some 444 00:21:24,249 --> 00:21:22,700 I suppose my experience of lot of this 445 00:21:26,109 --> 00:21:24,259 too is very different because I deal 446 00:21:27,789 --> 00:21:26,119 with people now I have worked in 447 00:21:29,229 --> 00:21:27,799 hospitals for many years but I work in a 448 00:21:34,659 --> 00:21:29,239 community said you're dealing with 449 00:21:36,219 --> 00:21:34,669 people at home and you must respect that 450 00:21:39,310 --> 00:21:36,229 you're on their territory there in their 451 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:39,320 space and it's a very different way of 452 00:21:43,989 --> 00:21:41,570 actually experiencing medicine then 453 00:21:45,820 --> 00:21:43,999 right but yeah and many people don't 454 00:21:48,369 --> 00:21:45,830 don't realize this of course absolutely 455 00:21:50,859 --> 00:21:48,379 but you would say saying something to me 456 00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:50,869 very interesting just before and it's 457 00:21:57,279 --> 00:21:53,809 something that I found to be sadly true 458 00:22:02,979 --> 00:21:57,289 is a lot of nurses a lot of nurses out 459 00:22:06,009 --> 00:22:02,989 there seem to be lacking a vital part of 460 00:22:10,269 --> 00:22:06,019 their education a lot of nurses are into 461 00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:10,279 whoo whoo whoo whoo and I again I don't 462 00:22:14,919 --> 00:22:12,830 like to use the word that the word Moo 463 00:22:16,779 --> 00:22:14,929 too much but it's the case that they're 464 00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:16,789 into energy medicine or therapeutic 465 00:22:21,549 --> 00:22:19,609 touch or what why do you think this is 466 00:22:23,129 --> 00:22:21,559 the case is it because they're dealing 467 00:22:26,049 --> 00:22:23,139 with people on such an emotional level 468 00:22:28,509 --> 00:22:26,059 well I think there's a lot of people who 469 00:22:30,879 --> 00:22:28,519 deal with people an emotional level in 470 00:22:32,529 --> 00:22:30,889 the medical eternity a lot of doctors 471 00:22:35,139 --> 00:22:32,539 and that too and there's not as if there 472 00:22:37,330 --> 00:22:35,149 aren't doctors that are into that too I 473 00:22:40,539 --> 00:22:37,340 suppose I'd be jumped on from a great 474 00:22:43,690 --> 00:22:40,549 height if I actually said that perhaps a 475 00:22:48,969 --> 00:22:43,700 lot of the theme the women I work with 476 00:22:52,869 --> 00:22:48,979 are perhaps more open to you are so 477 00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:52,879 diplomatic that's right to the 478 00:22:58,899 --> 00:22:56,470 possibility of alternatives working and 479 00:23:01,570 --> 00:22:58,909 yes a lot of them and I don't i think 480 00:23:03,249 --> 00:23:01,580 the education system I was an educator 481 00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:03,259 many years ago they haven't done that 482 00:23:10,869 --> 00:23:06,849 for a long time I don't know that the 483 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:10,879 the scientific method is pushed as much 484 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:15,610 at least it wasn't when I trained and so 485 00:23:19,860 --> 00:23:18,370 evidence-based medicine is trying to be 486 00:23:21,870 --> 00:23:19,870 brought in more and more and we are 487 00:23:25,860 --> 00:23:21,880 trying to bring that into our practice 488 00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:25,870 more and more but there's quite a lag 489 00:23:31,530 --> 00:23:27,940 time with people who haven't been 490 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:31,540 trained in those areas of I've actually 491 00:23:35,490 --> 00:23:33,970 understanding what what it actually is 492 00:23:40,890 --> 00:23:35,500 to Britt to use of evidence-based 493 00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:40,900 medicine and because the caring aspect 494 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:45,520 of things is of the job is is is more of 495 00:23:52,590 --> 00:23:48,730 a hands-on rather than theoretical 496 00:23:54,810 --> 00:23:52,600 nature it's more leaves itself more open 497 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:54,820 to people using a bit more magical 498 00:23:59,789 --> 00:23:57,130 thinking at times I think these that's 499 00:24:03,480 --> 00:23:59,799 going to give you the trouble it's going 500 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:03,490 to get you into trouble so but it's true 501 00:24:08,490 --> 00:24:06,010 i think that nurses do a wonderful job 502 00:24:10,049 --> 00:24:08,500 of course how could I say anything other 503 00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,059 than that that they really do this 504 00:24:15,289 --> 00:24:12,400 there's no doubt about it but it is sad 505 00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:15,299 to know them that many nurses are 506 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:18,460 pushing which what we consider the bean 507 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:22,090 nonsense look I am I did do three years 508 00:24:27,450 --> 00:24:24,730 of a Bachelor of Science degree before 509 00:24:29,850 --> 00:24:27,460 at after I had qualified as a registered 510 00:24:31,169 --> 00:24:29,860 nurse though I didn't finish my own 511 00:24:34,909 --> 00:24:31,179 vessel science I went back and finished 512 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:34,919 my degree off in nursing and I noted a 513 00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:37,510 marked difference in the scientific 514 00:24:43,620 --> 00:24:40,720 rigor really to be found in the two 515 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:43,630 faculties yeah now I can only talk about 516 00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:45,970 the faculties at the institution that I 517 00:24:52,899 --> 00:24:49,240 trained at the time I trained me 518 00:24:56,019 --> 00:24:52,909 but I I was at the University of 519 00:24:59,230 --> 00:24:56,029 Newcastle doing a Bachelor of Science 520 00:25:01,690 --> 00:24:59,240 degree majoring in psychology you could 521 00:25:04,510 --> 00:25:01,700 do it either as a site a science or an 522 00:25:06,669 --> 00:25:04,520 arts degree at the time but there was 523 00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:06,679 quite because Newcastle is a 524 00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:10,070 research-based as opposed to clinical 525 00:25:14,889 --> 00:25:12,260 well again when I trained there it was 526 00:25:16,659 --> 00:25:14,899 predominantly research I had quite a 527 00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,669 good grounding in research and 528 00:25:22,330 --> 00:25:18,640 statistics and all this sort of thing 529 00:25:28,690 --> 00:25:22,340 which I found when I went across to 530 00:25:31,539 --> 00:25:28,700 finish the degree in nursing those those 531 00:25:34,029 --> 00:25:31,549 areas weren't particularly strong areas 532 00:25:36,580 --> 00:25:34,039 that were being it was it was touched 533 00:25:38,889 --> 00:25:36,590 upon but it was sort of something that 534 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:38,899 was done as a peripheral aspect to the 535 00:25:48,399 --> 00:25:44,510 more hands-on aspects of the job so I do 536 00:25:52,659 --> 00:25:48,409 bring a bit more of an insight i can 537 00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:52,669 remember trying to explain so quite a 538 00:25:58,210 --> 00:25:54,710 few years ago now there was a study came 539 00:26:01,330 --> 00:25:58,220 out on on hormone replacement therapy 540 00:26:05,230 --> 00:26:01,340 with the and the incidence of breast 541 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:05,240 cancer and it was a very large study and 542 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:08,960 I tried to explain to my colleagues the 543 00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:13,010 significance of the risk factor being 544 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:15,350 twenty percent didn't mean that was 545 00:26:21,220 --> 00:26:18,289 twenty percent of the people but the the 546 00:26:22,570 --> 00:26:21,230 control group had 30 people who 547 00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:22,580 developed breast cancer on this 548 00:26:27,130 --> 00:26:24,799 particular treatment and the treatment 549 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:27,140 group had 36 550 00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:29,690 and even though there were many thousand 551 00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:32,240 several thousand people in the study the 552 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:37,760 difference between 30 and 36 was 65 in 553 00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:40,010 230 is twenty percent it wasn't even 554 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:43,910 significant but it was pushed in the 555 00:26:49,660 --> 00:26:47,090 media at the time twenty percent Rosen 556 00:26:51,670 --> 00:26:49,670 risk factor it was actually within the 557 00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:51,680 standard deviation of the actual trip 558 00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,320 but unless people have had statistical 559 00:26:59,020 --> 00:26:56,960 training you can't get these messages 560 00:27:00,340 --> 00:26:59,030 across they don't understand so no I and 561 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:00,350 the media don't want to go through that 562 00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:02,330 much trouble oh that's when his trouble 563 00:27:06,100 --> 00:27:03,860 there and it was actually pushed on the 564 00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:06,110 mediums look at this twenty percent rise 565 00:27:10,660 --> 00:27:08,750 in respect that well if you've got a 566 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:10,670 risk factor of one and had about out of 567 00:27:13,690 --> 00:27:12,410 ten thousand and two people out of ten 568 00:27:17,950 --> 00:27:13,700 thousand it's a hundred percent rise 569 00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:17,960 yeah I respect that but it doesn't mean 570 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:22,280 anything yeah and I think you had well 571 00:27:25,390 --> 00:27:24,110 when I trained nurses weren't trained in 572 00:27:28,660 --> 00:27:25,400 that type of thinking I have to do a 573 00:27:29,770 --> 00:27:28,670 science degree to actually look do part 574 00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:29,780 of a science degree to actually 575 00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:32,360 understand that and can you hold that 576 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:33,620 against people for not having that 577 00:27:38,620 --> 00:27:37,490 education I think so if you're going to 578 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:38,630 work in an area should at least 579 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:41,210 understand it I get I guess you're right 580 00:27:46,450 --> 00:27:43,490 I guess you're right well Paul what a 581 00:27:49,390 --> 00:27:46,460 pleasure has been and I must say I'm 582 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:49,400 deeply ambassador my glasses when you're 583 00:27:54,340 --> 00:27:50,810 finishing the cover so about that my 584 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:54,350 glass is empty I must say how chapter 585 00:27:58,210 --> 00:27:56,330 flattered I am that did you painted my 586 00:28:00,160 --> 00:27:58,220 portrait for the national portrait prize 587 00:28:02,830 --> 00:28:00,170 archibald products the archibald prize 588 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:02,840 and that's very exciting and we just 589 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:04,910 moved in there we have to do is room you 590 00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:06,410 just put the finishing that's why I'm 591 00:28:10,660 --> 00:28:08,720 here you put the finishing touches today 592 00:28:13,630 --> 00:28:10,670 when I set for you for a while to the 593 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:13,640 dimple what my chin was requested him 594 00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:15,290 there was over the one I hadn't I didn't 595 00:28:21,659 --> 00:28:17,580 know the chin dimple II know obviously 596 00:28:22,980 --> 00:28:21,669 is eerie to sit and talk with you back 597 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:22,990 at the studio and out of the corner of 598 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:25,570 my eye see myself that was I talking 599 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:27,130 about my wife making me put the picture 600 00:28:31,169 --> 00:28:28,570 away because she she thought she was 601 00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:31,179 being watched in the kitchen that's a 602 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:32,980 compliment aspects so if you're in 603 00:28:36,810 --> 00:28:34,450 Australia and you have the chance to 604 00:28:39,690 --> 00:28:36,820 vote in the Archibald Prize I give a 605 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:39,700 thought to pull our brains a portrait of 606 00:28:45,810 --> 00:28:42,370 Richard Saunders well thank you once 607 00:28:47,370 --> 00:28:45,820 again and great to come up to newcastle 608 00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:47,380 and have a chat good thank you for 609 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:49,809 coming up it's a beautiful day is worst 610 00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:51,130 places to have a chat been sitting on 611 00:29:07,289 --> 00:28:52,960 the harbor and having a beer isn't it I 612 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:07,299 agree hi this is Tim Farley you probably 613 00:29:12,090 --> 00:29:09,490 know me from what's the harm net a 614 00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,100 catalogue of the real world harm caused 615 00:29:17,789 --> 00:29:14,559 by lack of critical thinking but that's 616 00:29:20,669 --> 00:29:17,799 not my only project i present at skeptic 617 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:20,679 events I post a daily skeptic history 618 00:29:25,409 --> 00:29:23,530 fact on Twitter and Facebook and I blog 619 00:29:28,530 --> 00:29:25,419 about using new techniques on the 620 00:29:31,710 --> 00:29:28,540 internet to advance skepticism come over 621 00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:31,720 to skep tools com and check out my 622 00:29:46,450 --> 00:29:35,140 latest ideas but first enjoy the rest of 623 00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:48,830 well folks I've been called many things 624 00:29:54,890 --> 00:29:52,260 in my time here in Australian skeptics 625 00:29:59,450 --> 00:29:54,900 and skepticism I think my favorite was 626 00:30:02,150 --> 00:29:59,460 once our I was called a Mouseketeer only 627 00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:02,160 evil after I attended an 628 00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,070 anti-vaccination talk but I think my 629 00:30:09,260 --> 00:30:07,440 good friend Ian Bryce the chief 630 00:30:11,570 --> 00:30:09,270 investigator from Australian skeptics 631 00:30:16,970 --> 00:30:11,580 has trumped me here he's just being 632 00:30:18,650 --> 00:30:16,980 called by Andre Rossi a puppet snake Ian 633 00:30:21,650 --> 00:30:18,660 you're a puppet snake yes that's quite 634 00:30:25,670 --> 00:30:21,660 an honor hahahaha that is and this is 635 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:25,680 actually from Andre Rossi himself that 636 00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:29,970 as printed or reported here on a website 637 00:30:37,070 --> 00:30:34,670 called ecat world II hyphen cat 638 00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:37,080 world.com which seems to be a good 639 00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:39,390 source of information about the ongoing 640 00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:42,480 story yes indeed perhaps we can start 641 00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:44,820 with a bit of background this is our 642 00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:46,710 third podcast on this topic so i'll just 643 00:30:52,060 --> 00:30:49,620 briefly run through the previous the 644 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:52,070 background as most of you would know 645 00:30:57,020 --> 00:30:54,570 dick smith was approached recently in 646 00:30:59,180 --> 00:30:57,030 december with an offer to invest two 647 00:31:00,890 --> 00:30:59,190 hundred thousand dollars in a scheme 648 00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:00,900 which would save the planet by providing 649 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:03,360 almost free energy and make dick a 650 00:31:08,810 --> 00:31:06,450 zillionaire / know virtually a dick shot 651 00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:08,820 back an email saying oh that sounds 652 00:31:12,140 --> 00:31:10,740 great i'll send my check as soon as you 653 00:31:14,180 --> 00:31:12,150 can find an independent scientists to 654 00:31:16,610 --> 00:31:14,190 verify that it's true very responsive 655 00:31:17,690 --> 00:31:16,620 apparently the request went out to many 656 00:31:20,210 --> 00:31:17,700 people in dick was the only one who 657 00:31:21,980 --> 00:31:20,220 responded and stick was a bit surprised 658 00:31:24,620 --> 00:31:21,990 to get it back a list of scientists 659 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:24,630 apparently endorsing mr. Ross easy cat 660 00:31:28,730 --> 00:31:27,450 so it'd better get someone to 661 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:28,740 investigate it then so he approached 662 00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:31,650 Australian skeptics and we've had 663 00:31:35,150 --> 00:31:33,270 experience in investigating many 664 00:31:38,450 --> 00:31:35,160 different sorts of energy scams and 665 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:38,460 claims and schemes but this one was 666 00:31:44,180 --> 00:31:41,370 different in that ended up being a list 667 00:31:46,670 --> 00:31:44,190 of 15 scientists or otherwise reliable 668 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:46,680 observers who either witnessed the tests 669 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:48,570 or who went through the reports in 670 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:51,090 detail and gave some support to this 671 00:31:53,620 --> 00:31:52,250 device 672 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:53,630 which has claimed to run on cold fusion 673 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:56,690 and produce heat output which is much 674 00:32:00,730 --> 00:31:58,610 more than the electrical input so I 675 00:32:02,260 --> 00:32:00,740 firstly went to an investor's meeting in 676 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:02,270 Mullen BIM being in northern New South 677 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:05,690 Wales hoping to speak to Rossi by Scott 678 00:32:09,250 --> 00:32:07,490 this was organized by the hopeful 679 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:09,260 Australian representative soul millen 680 00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:12,410 and I didn't receive any new information 681 00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:16,070 there so I advised addicted although I 682 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:18,350 couldn't actually see how the scientists 683 00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,730 were fooled at that stage nevertheless 684 00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:21,440 there were too many bad signs and he 685 00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,990 shouldn't invest in it so this made news 686 00:32:28,650 --> 00:32:26,000 around Australia miss dick smith and 687 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:28,660 money always mix hmm makes a big splash 688 00:32:34,570 --> 00:32:32,930 so since then we've tried to have 689 00:32:35,980 --> 00:32:34,580 obtained a lot of coverage overseas but 690 00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:35,990 not so much in Australia with the 691 00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:40,760 ongoing investigation and dick up the 692 00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:42,710 offer he raised the ante I think that's 693 00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:44,990 an appropriate turning he had a very 694 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:47,510 appropriate term and not so long ago 695 00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:49,490 only a couple of days ago of course he 696 00:32:53,410 --> 00:32:51,980 made an announcement if it turned out to 697 00:32:54,850 --> 00:32:53,420 be real dick would love to be associated 698 00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:54,860 with the yeah I'd love to invest in it 699 00:32:59,710 --> 00:32:56,990 Oh wouldn't you oh yes the Nobel Prize 700 00:33:03,030 --> 00:32:59,720 is flowing from for many people in any 701 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:03,040 case stick off at a million dollars to 702 00:33:08,740 --> 00:33:06,290 mr. Rossi to simply not not do anything 703 00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:08,750 fancy but simply repeat and unknown and 704 00:33:12,970 --> 00:33:10,430 well-documented test of the e-cat I 705 00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:12,980 picked the test of the 29th of March 706 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:14,480 which was observed by two Swedish 707 00:33:20,050 --> 00:33:16,130 scientists they said it appeared to be 708 00:33:23,650 --> 00:33:20,060 genuine and however when I went through 709 00:33:25,390 --> 00:33:23,660 the results eventually found a flaw in 710 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:25,400 the methodology that would account for 711 00:33:29,740 --> 00:33:27,410 the extra heat out yeah more heat out 712 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:29,750 basically there was about 3000 watts of 713 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:33,290 heat coming out and about 300 watts of 714 00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:34,610 heat going in as registered by the 715 00:33:39,820 --> 00:33:37,910 electrics electricity meters and I 716 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:39,830 thought that a simple way to fake this 717 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:41,090 if one was inclined would be to run 718 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:43,730 extra power through the earth lead hot 719 00:33:49,150 --> 00:33:46,090 way the earth lead in the three-pin plug 720 00:33:50,260 --> 00:33:49,160 to the active so it was now 240 volts 721 00:33:53,530 --> 00:33:50,270 and you think the other end to some 722 00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:53,540 extra resistors inside the e-cat that 723 00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:54,710 way would you would have extra power 724 00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:56,750 flowing into the he kept that wasn't 725 00:34:01,330 --> 00:33:58,880 registered by the meters which were 726 00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:01,340 connected only to the active wire so 727 00:34:05,169 --> 00:34:03,320 when I published that I've got some 728 00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:05,179 responses lots of responses from around 729 00:34:08,530 --> 00:34:05,840 the world 730 00:34:09,849 --> 00:34:08,540 and some from these scientists are 731 00:34:11,980 --> 00:34:09,859 witness the tests and they basically 732 00:34:15,970 --> 00:34:11,990 said yes what you describe is possible 733 00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:15,980 hmm so that's enough I think to put this 734 00:34:21,369 --> 00:34:17,839 forward as a serious hypothesis or 735 00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:21,379 scoffs very serious doubts absolutely I 736 00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:24,040 think so and that with some other fixes 737 00:34:28,839 --> 00:34:26,780 with misplaced temperature probes in the 738 00:34:30,750 --> 00:34:28,849 later tests the earth why hypothesis 739 00:34:34,540 --> 00:34:30,760 applies to the first seven of nine 740 00:34:35,889 --> 00:34:34,550 documented tests on my count so it's the 741 00:34:38,109 --> 00:34:35,899 most important one but with some other 742 00:34:39,970 --> 00:34:38,119 misplaced thermometers it's easy to see 743 00:34:42,820 --> 00:34:39,980 that all of the evidence for cold fusion 744 00:34:45,099 --> 00:34:42,830 in my opinion has other explanations so 745 00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:45,109 that was seven of nine use it that's 746 00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:46,700 right yes interesting all that went from 747 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:51,440 December 2010 up to april 2011 could be 748 00:34:56,260 --> 00:34:53,690 explained by the earth wire and the 749 00:34:59,050 --> 00:34:56,270 later ones by misplaced thermocouples 750 00:35:00,730 --> 00:34:59,060 reading the wrong temperatures so dick 751 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:00,740 put out his challenge for a million 752 00:35:04,030 --> 00:35:02,690 dollars but starts off dick smith is my 753 00:35:05,650 --> 00:35:04,040 name i'm writing to you from Sydney 754 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:05,660 Australia possibly the best information 755 00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:07,250 in relation of my background is on 756 00:35:12,579 --> 00:35:09,710 wicked Wikipedia certainly got a big 757 00:35:16,329 --> 00:35:12,589 entry there and this email was addressed 758 00:35:18,579 --> 00:35:16,339 to andrea rossi and it describes the US 759 00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:18,589 dollar 1 billion dollars for successful 760 00:35:23,410 --> 00:35:21,200 repeater vcap demonstration and gives 761 00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:23,420 the background to mr. Rossi and also to 762 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:25,280 the media and says that he will lodge a 763 00:35:31,660 --> 00:35:28,970 bank check made out to mr. Rossi in 764 00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:31,670 escrow if he desires and when mr. Rossi 765 00:35:36,609 --> 00:35:34,910 repeats this demonstration and someone 766 00:35:40,060 --> 00:35:36,619 will be present to measure the current 767 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:40,070 in all three wires this time and if we 768 00:35:44,290 --> 00:35:41,690 observed the same heat coming out of the 769 00:35:46,270 --> 00:35:44,300 device then dick will hand over the 770 00:35:47,380 --> 00:35:46,280 check and mr. Rossi will be a 771 00:35:49,570 --> 00:35:47,390 millionaire and gain all that 772 00:35:51,460 --> 00:35:49,580 credibility how simple can you get and 773 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:51,470 this is one of the things that amazes me 774 00:35:57,130 --> 00:35:54,410 again and again and we can discuss this 775 00:35:59,530 --> 00:35:57,140 a little further is that when people are 776 00:36:02,050 --> 00:35:59,540 offered what should be a walk in the 777 00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:02,060 park flat falling off a log it's it's 778 00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:04,880 like now a lot of people listen to the 779 00:36:07,660 --> 00:36:06,140 skeptic zone when they're driving in 780 00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:07,670 their kind if we were to say to them 781 00:36:11,230 --> 00:36:09,200 well the hop out of your car for a 782 00:36:13,089 --> 00:36:11,240 second have a little rest and we'll pay 783 00:36:14,510 --> 00:36:13,099 you a million dollars if you can drive 784 00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:14,520 for one hour in York 785 00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:17,230 it's more or less the same saying the 786 00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:18,430 same sort of thing you've already done 787 00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,720 this but we'll give you a million 788 00:36:26,660 --> 00:36:22,240 dollars if you can do it again so when 789 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:26,670 people decline such a gobsmacking Lee 790 00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:32,890 easy easy request one is one should be 791 00:36:37,170 --> 00:36:35,110 skeptical and it certainly does some 792 00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:37,180 harm to the credibility of their claim 793 00:36:43,110 --> 00:36:40,990 indeed so anyway when when this offer 794 00:36:47,490 --> 00:36:43,120 went out in my hypothesis about the 795 00:36:50,940 --> 00:36:47,500 earth were went out the response on the 796 00:36:53,730 --> 00:36:50,950 about a hundred blogs following mr. 797 00:36:55,350 --> 00:36:53,740 Rossi of easycap there are all the 798 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:55,360 followers and believers in mr. Rossi 799 00:37:00,180 --> 00:36:57,490 circuit came out of the woodwork seninle 800 00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:00,190 boy were they vicious absolutely I have 801 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:02,710 been trying to read as many as I can now 802 00:37:08,250 --> 00:37:05,590 those on Twitter here's a tip if you 803 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:08,260 want to follow this story in greater 804 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:11,290 detail just the hashtag the hashtag on 805 00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:14,410 twitter twitter is hash ecat that's the 806 00:37:18,140 --> 00:37:15,910 simplest thing and you can there's a 807 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:18,150 great somebody's out there twittering 808 00:37:25,980 --> 00:37:22,330 with the handle ecat news and they 809 00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:25,990 always use hash ecat and they post many 810 00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:28,740 many many items to do with this both on 811 00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,350 your from your point of view that as the 812 00:37:37,050 --> 00:37:34,240 side of a science and reason dare we say 813 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:37,060 and also from the believers of Rossi and 814 00:37:49,260 --> 00:37:46,740 it's it's really does remind me of blind 815 00:37:51,630 --> 00:37:49,270 faith and belief in crystals or 816 00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:51,640 homeopathy or any religion I think it's 817 00:37:56,070 --> 00:37:53,350 got so much income enters conspiracy 818 00:37:58,800 --> 00:37:56,080 theories conspiracy fellow the 911 truth 819 00:37:59,940 --> 00:37:58,810 is you are so many parallels let me read 820 00:38:01,920 --> 00:37:59,950 you some of the things they've said 821 00:38:03,390 --> 00:38:01,930 about me Ian Bryce comes across as the 822 00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:03,400 equally ignorant counterpart to the 823 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:05,350 blind believer a zealous skeptic 824 00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:07,030 motivated to make an entertaining 825 00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,320 debunking story that doesn't matter 826 00:38:11,850 --> 00:38:10,240 bothered to check fact and research 827 00:38:13,650 --> 00:38:11,860 because he has it all figured out anyway 828 00:38:16,020 --> 00:38:13,660 he's biting off more than he can chew 829 00:38:17,070 --> 00:38:16,030 here well we shall see yeah I knew right 830 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:17,080 then that this guy had done very little 831 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:18,490 research on this I didn't bother 832 00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:20,050 listening to the wrist the guy is 833 00:38:24,510 --> 00:38:22,510 obviously a boob and excited I like 834 00:38:26,940 --> 00:38:24,520 boobs very much please don't say bad 835 00:38:27,870 --> 00:38:26,950 things about boobs like saying that 836 00:38:31,650 --> 00:38:27,880 pathos 837 00:38:34,289 --> 00:38:31,660 skeptic I should say that our press 838 00:38:36,269 --> 00:38:34,299 release had a lot of technical detail in 839 00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:36,279 it and had links to about ten supporting 840 00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:37,839 documents and analysis so all I have to 841 00:38:43,769 --> 00:38:39,910 do is click on nasal download from the 842 00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:43,779 skeptics site a spreadsheet describing 843 00:38:49,019 --> 00:38:45,700 the temperature history of a certain 844 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:49,029 tests and another right list of all the 845 00:38:52,259 --> 00:38:50,890 15 scientists and what their comments 846 00:38:54,180 --> 00:38:52,269 were and another list of all the 847 00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:54,190 demonstrations that rusty is done all 848 00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:55,359 nine of them and the results they 849 00:38:59,940 --> 00:38:58,240 claimed so it's all there and if they 850 00:39:01,529 --> 00:38:59,950 want a third layer of information i'll 851 00:39:04,049 --> 00:39:01,539 have to do is email me and i'll send in 852 00:39:06,089 --> 00:39:04,059 the original material so i think i feel 853 00:39:08,759 --> 00:39:06,099 i backed this up to some extent you have 854 00:39:11,220 --> 00:39:08,769 but don't don't forget that many of 855 00:39:13,499 --> 00:39:11,230 these people already sold on the idea 856 00:39:16,410 --> 00:39:13,509 that ross he has invented some sort of 857 00:39:18,599 --> 00:39:16,420 magical thing and so from from their 858 00:39:21,539 --> 00:39:18,609 point of view you're either nuts or part 859 00:39:24,029 --> 00:39:21,549 of the conspiracy against new emerging 860 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:24,039 technologies which you know as we all 861 00:39:29,370 --> 00:39:25,930 know or the oil companies are out there 862 00:39:31,259 --> 00:39:29,380 ready to quash any new invention of 863 00:39:34,289 --> 00:39:31,269 natural right one of them plan me for 864 00:39:37,740 --> 00:39:34,299 being an atheist and candidate for 865 00:39:42,660 --> 00:39:37,750 president of the secular party and so on 866 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:42,670 and a newly formed Ozzie skeptics meetup 867 00:39:46,710 --> 00:39:44,890 group loves attention so much say that 868 00:39:50,130 --> 00:39:46,720 he built his own popemobile complete 869 00:39:52,140 --> 00:39:50,140 with fake Pope and then it's going to 870 00:39:55,499 --> 00:39:52,150 God and say that completely discredit 871 00:39:58,019 --> 00:39:55,509 your attack on thur that's right and 872 00:40:00,539 --> 00:39:58,029 that the incident screams that this mr. 873 00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:00,549 Bryce meets the official dsm-4 analysis 874 00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:02,710 of a narcissistic personality disorder 875 00:40:07,859 --> 00:40:05,049 oh I can vouch without II always thought 876 00:40:09,809 --> 00:40:07,869 so yeah how about a straight up mud 877 00:40:13,249 --> 00:40:09,819 wrestle tag team featuring did Smith 878 00:40:17,299 --> 00:40:13,259 Bryce and his plastic Pope against Rossi 879 00:40:20,009 --> 00:40:17,309 Picardy and Fellini Fellini what and 880 00:40:23,519 --> 00:40:20,019 Dennis Bushnell anessa scientists can be 881 00:40:26,970 --> 00:40:23,529 the referee and kevin kline the ringside 882 00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:26,980 announcer at spoke w RI ng si de this 883 00:40:31,140 --> 00:40:29,710 this just I mean the arguments these 884 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:31,150 people putting up a staggering out they 885 00:40:36,660 --> 00:40:33,130 in how can you possibly counter the edge 886 00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:36,670 and with poor old dick cake gotta caning 887 00:40:39,930 --> 00:40:38,079 to Smith the inventor of 888 00:40:40,570 --> 00:40:39,940 matches featuring the screaming woman on 889 00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:40,580 the cover 890 00:40:44,740 --> 00:40:43,190 he did indeed trying to get matches made 891 00:40:48,340 --> 00:40:44,750 in australia again I but there was a 892 00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:48,350 publicity stunt yes hmm your denial of 893 00:40:52,270 --> 00:40:49,910 the possibility of any elements 894 00:40:54,430 --> 00:40:52,280 deliberate fabrication when someone's 895 00:40:56,650 --> 00:40:54,440 eyes are so closed your posts a more 896 00:40:59,860 --> 00:40:56,660 about you than about anything else Ian 897 00:41:01,420 --> 00:40:59,870 Bryce you're an idiot okay you to call 898 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:01,430 yourself a skeptic is to disgrace the 899 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,370 name I declare your disgrace to science 900 00:41:11,170 --> 00:41:06,640 and a disgrace to skepticism now however 901 00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:11,180 there were some positive ones I'm glad 902 00:41:19,330 --> 00:41:14,510 to hear yes for example Sean Taylor 903 00:41:22,090 --> 00:41:19,340 honey cat news who's been slowly come 904 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:22,100 around to a sensible one of you answer 905 00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,890 someone else who said that I'm nothing 906 00:41:28,060 --> 00:41:26,240 but assumptions and false information 907 00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:28,070 this is what assumptions what incomplete 908 00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:30,020 information what part of there are no 909 00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:31,790 independent e-cat measurements and rossi 910 00:41:37,330 --> 00:41:34,510 refuses to do them don't you understand 911 00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:37,340 what part of the diff Kelly and have 912 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:38,960 refused to do proper flow calorimeter 913 00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:41,570 don't you understand what part of dick 914 00:41:44,350 --> 00:41:43,040 smithy and brass Australian skeptics 915 00:41:45,820 --> 00:41:44,360 have gone on record to say Rossi has 916 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:45,830 misled 15 scientists don't you 917 00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:48,290 understand there is good reason for a 918 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:51,200 skeptics society and an electrical 919 00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:54,290 engineering department doctor in South 920 00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:57,920 Africa has even come out and told us how 921 00:42:02,110 --> 00:42:00,560 we should do measurements to avoid the 922 00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:02,120 earth wire problem which is all very 923 00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:04,400 helpful so fit from around the world 924 00:42:08,050 --> 00:42:06,230 have come out following there been so 925 00:42:09,700 --> 00:42:08,060 many responses due to the podcast that 926 00:42:11,740 --> 00:42:09,710 went out around the world and all good 927 00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:11,750 but lots of information there that we 928 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:16,630 the next item is that Rossi's reply 929 00:42:21,599 --> 00:42:19,130 coming to DC to apply to Dick Smith 930 00:42:24,269 --> 00:42:21,609 after dick smith put out though 931 00:42:26,549 --> 00:42:24,279 my million-dollar offer which would be a 932 00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:26,559 walk in the park one would think plus he 933 00:42:32,180 --> 00:42:29,710 says dear mr. Smith mr. Dick Smith I am 934 00:42:34,799 --> 00:42:32,190 totally not interested to your proposal 935 00:42:37,499 --> 00:42:34,809 and mr. Sol melon is not authorized to 936 00:42:38,940 --> 00:42:37,509 make any proposal on our behalf as for 937 00:42:41,309 --> 00:42:38,950 testing airy cuts when they will be in 938 00:42:43,170 --> 00:42:41,319 the market I suppose within next winter 939 00:42:45,809 --> 00:42:43,180 you'll be free to buy one and make all 940 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:45,819 the tests you want for free what's 941 00:42:50,609 --> 00:42:47,170 hadley free since he's selling them for 942 00:42:52,769 --> 00:42:50,619 1.5 million set next winter her so he's 943 00:42:54,299 --> 00:42:52,779 put it he's put a time frame on when 944 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:54,309 these things should be out there yes 945 00:42:59,160 --> 00:42:55,930 he's put on many time frames and they've 946 00:43:01,979 --> 00:42:59,170 all the laps today mhm so I can't 947 00:43:05,609 --> 00:43:01,989 comment on whether Rossi's product is a 948 00:43:07,859 --> 00:43:05,619 scam but but Dick Smith has many people 949 00:43:10,289 --> 00:43:07,869 have drawn parallels to other scams such 950 00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:10,299 as via path well we can report the dick 951 00:43:15,150 --> 00:43:13,150 smith is called it a scam mmhmm yeah and 952 00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:15,160 many others online have been turned 953 00:43:21,299 --> 00:43:19,089 around so if so they followed the 954 00:43:22,739 --> 00:43:21,309 pattern where they they say they're not 955 00:43:24,690 --> 00:43:22,749 calling for any money and don't need any 956 00:43:27,289 --> 00:43:24,700 money yet the evidence shows quite 957 00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:27,299 otherwise we have an invoice from Rossi 958 00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:30,160 directed to Seoul millen who's the man 959 00:43:34,170 --> 00:43:32,529 in my own bin bei bei which is hopeful 960 00:43:35,609 --> 00:43:34,180 Australian representative this business 961 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:35,619 plan has just got a bit of a hole in it 962 00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:38,890 since we feel hot probably anyway that's 963 00:43:45,809 --> 00:43:43,529 demanding 100,000 euros as the share in 964 00:43:49,529 --> 00:43:45,819 being getting the australasian 965 00:43:51,029 --> 00:43:49,539 distributorship for ross easycap so he's 966 00:43:53,489 --> 00:43:51,039 secretly pressing everyone for money 967 00:43:55,499 --> 00:43:53,499 well denying it but then a 968 00:43:58,019 --> 00:43:55,509 million-dollar US dollars should be very 969 00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,029 tempting for him you one would think one 970 00:44:03,059 --> 00:44:00,400 would think so Russy also replied on 971 00:44:05,779 --> 00:44:03,069 another other different forums I am 972 00:44:08,220 --> 00:44:05,789 receiving emails regarding the 1,000,001 973 00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:08,230 the millionaire who offers a million for 974 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:10,630 the test and to what we think of someone 975 00:44:14,849 --> 00:44:12,130 would be competitors who will make other 976 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:14,859 tests on a device of them i've not time 977 00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:16,210 to answer singly so here's the phone 978 00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:20,140 lines of evidence all in capitals entire 979 00:44:27,150 --> 00:44:24,960 email and the bit that amuses me is 980 00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:27,160 again claiming that is one mega what 981 00:44:30,779 --> 00:44:29,200 plants have been sold to an entity that 982 00:44:32,309 --> 00:44:30,789 once not to be disclosed because he 983 00:44:34,349 --> 00:44:32,319 keeps saying is sold many of these 984 00:44:35,989 --> 00:44:34,359 devices yet he cannot name a single by 985 00:44:39,749 --> 00:44:35,999 all right 986 00:44:42,029 --> 00:44:39,759 so he wants to receive deposits on them 987 00:44:43,499 --> 00:44:42,039 and then we even money in escrow is 988 00:44:46,199 --> 00:44:43,509 worth something because he can then 989 00:44:47,849 --> 00:44:46,209 claim that people have bought them and 990 00:44:50,370 --> 00:44:47,859 in the normal course of business they'll 991 00:44:51,779 --> 00:44:50,380 be delivered hmm so I think that's what 992 00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:51,789 he wants dick to put that he's happy if 993 00:44:55,499 --> 00:44:53,680 dick would put that million dollars in 994 00:44:56,849 --> 00:44:55,509 escrow which means that it's in it as 995 00:44:58,589 --> 00:44:56,859 now with the third party here there 996 00:45:04,019 --> 00:44:58,599 decides whether or not has passed on or 997 00:45:07,949 --> 00:45:04,029 returned so so Russy is simply calling 998 00:45:09,630 --> 00:45:07,959 for people to buy he gets to put the 999 00:45:12,479 --> 00:45:09,640 money up for them and he won't do any 1000 00:45:16,289 --> 00:45:12,489 more tests until they do that now since 1001 00:45:19,769 --> 00:45:16,299 that time another writer has said Rossi 1002 00:45:22,729 --> 00:45:19,779 smelt a rat as an expression smelled 1003 00:45:25,949 --> 00:45:22,739 something wrong with dicks offer a snake 1004 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:25,959 meaning Stephen krivit eos cause crivitz 1005 00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:28,450 new energy times a snake and a rotting 1006 00:45:33,269 --> 00:45:31,569 wombat I can only assume the rotting 1007 00:45:38,099 --> 00:45:33,279 wombat is the Australian end of the 1008 00:45:39,660 --> 00:45:38,109 connection Smith and Bryce good so quite 1009 00:45:41,069 --> 00:45:39,670 rightly russi without anything to do 1010 00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,079 with it so there we are a rutting one 1011 00:45:46,170 --> 00:45:42,880 bet as well as a soft gets better 1012 00:45:49,079 --> 00:45:46,180 puppets snakes another aspect of this is 1013 00:45:51,150 --> 00:45:49,089 that the Greek connection the Greek 1014 00:45:54,739 --> 00:45:51,160 connection now this is interesting that 1015 00:45:57,059 --> 00:45:54,749 we go from Italy degrees yes indeed 1016 00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:57,069 Rossi had an interest in a Greek company 1017 00:46:01,920 --> 00:45:59,920 called deaf kellian and apparently 1018 00:46:03,569 --> 00:46:01,930 intended to license that he kept 1019 00:46:05,939 --> 00:46:03,579 technology to them but they had a 1020 00:46:08,219 --> 00:46:05,949 falling out and since then def calian 1021 00:46:09,779 --> 00:46:08,229 went on and have made their own device 1022 00:46:11,609 --> 00:46:09,789 called Hyperion which they claim is 1023 00:46:13,799 --> 00:46:11,619 based on Rossi's technology which they 1024 00:46:16,579 --> 00:46:13,809 openly admit to stealing from him oh boy 1025 00:46:20,910 --> 00:46:16,589 we're talking about it a new technology 1026 00:46:23,579 --> 00:46:20,920 here that will write new science books 1027 00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:23,589 based on cold fusion and when many Nobel 1028 00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:27,660 prizes hmm and as we've said before 1029 00:46:32,370 --> 00:46:29,920 revolutionize our society and two 1030 00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:32,380 worthless companies this squabbling over 1031 00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:34,209 who owns the technology can you imagine 1032 00:46:38,789 --> 00:46:36,400 two Nobel Prizes fighting over who and 1033 00:46:41,579 --> 00:46:38,799 the the structure of DNA or something 1034 00:46:43,199 --> 00:46:41,589 like that maybe I can this is mystified 1035 00:46:45,809 --> 00:46:43,209 many industry observers but it's my 1036 00:46:48,780 --> 00:46:45,819 theory that the technology that if 1037 00:46:51,690 --> 00:46:48,790 kellian stole from rossi 1038 00:46:55,290 --> 00:46:51,700 isn't nuclear fusion technology but it's 1039 00:46:56,610 --> 00:46:55,300 earth wire technology as they both 1040 00:46:59,160 --> 00:46:56,620 realize that it's worth a million 1041 00:47:02,700 --> 00:46:59,170 dollars anyway he can sell devices based 1042 00:47:04,530 --> 00:47:02,710 on that and they're not about to pay 1043 00:47:05,820 --> 00:47:04,540 Rossi any royalties for that and russy's 1044 00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:05,830 not about to come out and sue them 1045 00:47:09,810 --> 00:47:07,390 because it had to reveal who you have to 1046 00:47:12,030 --> 00:47:09,820 yeah that's my theory is at the squabble 1047 00:47:14,310 --> 00:47:12,040 between Rossi's Leonardo and if Kelly 1048 00:47:16,290 --> 00:47:14,320 and his earth wire technology so it 1049 00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:16,300 makes sense getting back to all these 1050 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:18,280 the multitude of believers on there have 1051 00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:20,050 been insulting you and insulting dick 1052 00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:23,350 smith and dumb and listeners can go to 1053 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:24,880 the blogs and see for themselves it's 1054 00:47:28,410 --> 00:47:26,890 just incredible it really does remind me 1055 00:47:30,270 --> 00:47:28,420 of believers in crystals or magic or 1056 00:47:35,070 --> 00:47:30,280 something like that there's got to be a 1057 00:47:38,190 --> 00:47:35,080 stage it's got to come a time when time 1058 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:38,200 marches on these engines aren't produced 1059 00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:40,330 they're not available people can't buy 1060 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:42,730 them Rossi won't deliver et cetera et 1061 00:47:48,210 --> 00:47:46,330 cetera one wonders when for a lot of 1062 00:47:51,930 --> 00:47:48,220 these people the penny will finally drop 1063 00:47:56,610 --> 00:47:51,940 the believers yes well the observers of 1064 00:47:58,650 --> 00:47:56,620 firepower and split cycle and green 1065 00:48:01,370 --> 00:47:58,660 power and many other and Lou tech and 1066 00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:01,380 many others observed that they don't 1067 00:48:05,970 --> 00:48:04,270 have a cut-off date governments are 1068 00:48:07,620 --> 00:48:05,980 generally so totally inept of 1069 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:07,630 prosecuting anyone who does this 1070 00:48:14,460 --> 00:48:10,450 bureaucracy matters only on timeframe of 1071 00:48:16,830 --> 00:48:14,470 years and all it really happens is that 1072 00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:16,840 the publicity which the skeptics derived 1073 00:48:23,390 --> 00:48:19,510 turns away enough people anyone who now 1074 00:48:26,730 --> 00:48:23,400 bothers to do do due diligence yes we'll 1075 00:48:29,010 --> 00:48:26,740 walk away from Rossi or else they will 1076 00:48:31,140 --> 00:48:29,020 ask to see better information yes to see 1077 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:31,150 a real test while measuring it more 1078 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:34,450 thoroughly so therefore their business 1079 00:48:39,690 --> 00:48:37,530 dies away and if there if there was a 1080 00:48:41,130 --> 00:48:39,700 moment of prosecution when I was old 1081 00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:41,140 when the governor is going to close in 1082 00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,150 on them and perhaps charge them and put 1083 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:45,040 them in jail dinner quite likely they 1084 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:46,450 would take the money they've got so far 1085 00:48:50,310 --> 00:48:48,610 and disappear but that hardly ever 1086 00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:50,320 happens they can just fade away move to 1087 00:48:57,090 --> 00:48:54,000 another country the manager of firepower 1088 00:49:01,019 --> 00:48:57,100 skipped Australia after purchase our 1089 00:49:03,339 --> 00:49:01,029 listeners benefit in what was the fire 1090 00:49:05,980 --> 00:49:03,349 that was a pill which you put in the 1091 00:49:08,349 --> 00:49:05,990 petrol tank of your car and it energizes 1092 00:49:11,049 --> 00:49:08,359 the petrol kind so your car runs further 1093 00:49:13,269 --> 00:49:11,059 oh well but then that was some years ago 1094 00:49:14,980 --> 00:49:13,279 he here in Australia and it led to the 1095 00:49:18,609 --> 00:49:14,990 collapse of businesses and all sorts of 1096 00:49:21,370 --> 00:49:18,619 things yes it sounded so good and the 1097 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:21,380 pyramid was built up not on a product 1098 00:49:27,849 --> 00:49:24,650 but on promised dealerships yes as if 1099 00:49:29,380 --> 00:49:27,859 I'm saying you tell the tell the public 1100 00:49:31,269 --> 00:49:29,390 that you've got a product to sell but if 1101 00:49:33,730 --> 00:49:31,279 I'm interviewing if I'm trying to 1102 00:49:36,789 --> 00:49:33,740 attract investment I say look I've got a 1103 00:49:38,799 --> 00:49:36,799 scheme here that's made me millions and 1104 00:49:40,779 --> 00:49:38,809 it can do the same for you it's pyramid 1105 00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:40,789 selling what I'm going to sell to you is 1106 00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:42,710 the dealership for Australia and you can 1107 00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:44,569 sub sell that to deal with ship in 1108 00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:46,250 Tasmania in Northern Territory in here 1109 00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:47,630 and there at each of those people can 1110 00:49:51,730 --> 00:49:49,760 sub sell it to a smaller area yeah and 1111 00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:51,740 so each of those people seized the 1112 00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:53,089 opportunity to make money the product 1113 00:49:57,279 --> 00:49:54,710 doesn't matter it's the fact that they 1114 00:50:01,660 --> 00:49:57,289 can make money from a lower level that's 1115 00:50:03,849 --> 00:50:01,670 called pyramid selling and that's how 1116 00:50:06,940 --> 00:50:03,859 these sort of schemes operate it's often 1117 00:50:10,930 --> 00:50:06,950 said right well the crunch time one 1118 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:10,940 would think has to come for mr. Rossi at 1119 00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:13,970 some stage probably this year when you 1120 00:50:18,099 --> 00:50:16,609 think well I'm not sure there will be a 1121 00:50:21,849 --> 00:50:18,109 crunch time I think it'll die away 1122 00:50:24,269 --> 00:50:21,859 exponentially yeah yeah and let's see 1123 00:50:26,799 --> 00:50:24,279 the Italian government is so inept 1124 00:50:29,740 --> 00:50:26,809 prosecuting people and sometimes when 1125 00:50:31,269 --> 00:50:29,750 they get convicted it's not necessarily 1126 00:50:34,299 --> 00:50:31,279 valid anyway it's to do with vested 1127 00:50:36,279 --> 00:50:34,309 interests and perhaps even corruption 1128 00:50:37,260 --> 00:50:36,289 but the record is so bad that I fear 1129 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:37,270 that you'll never be brought to justice 1130 00:50:41,529 --> 00:50:40,010 it's just that all you can do is make 1131 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:41,539 investors well their purpose is to 1132 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:43,970 better inform potential investors so 1133 00:50:47,410 --> 00:50:46,010 they only fly see this is very very good 1134 00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:47,420 and I think you've done a wonderful job 1135 00:50:51,700 --> 00:50:49,569 in this and as you say anyone who is 1136 00:50:54,010 --> 00:50:51,710 hearing about this and does their due 1137 00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:54,020 diligence will come across what you've 1138 00:50:58,690 --> 00:50:55,520 been doing because it's all public and 1139 00:51:00,220 --> 00:50:58,700 dick Smith's offer and so on so from 1140 00:51:02,859 --> 00:51:00,230 that point of view I think you've done 1141 00:51:05,019 --> 00:51:02,869 very well even coming on the skeptic 1142 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:05,029 zone and alerting more people to this 1143 00:51:10,789 --> 00:51:07,010 now what you can do listen is to help 1144 00:51:13,370 --> 00:51:10,799 Ian and we keep harking back to these 1145 00:51:14,900 --> 00:51:13,380 these blogs this there's a plane flying 1146 00:51:17,959 --> 00:51:14,910 over now wonder if it's running on me 1147 00:51:22,370 --> 00:51:17,969 catch a try I wonder whether it's got 1148 00:51:24,199 --> 00:51:22,380 firepower pills inspecting I is visit 1149 00:51:27,769 --> 00:51:24,209 some of these blogs and seen the attacks 1150 00:51:29,689 --> 00:51:27,779 on on in personal attacks on a union 1151 00:51:32,029 --> 00:51:29,699 dick smith who is a good man and patron 1152 00:51:33,919 --> 00:51:32,039 of the Australian skeptics and chip in 1153 00:51:36,949 --> 00:51:33,929 chip in on the side of science and 1154 00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:36,959 reason and point out that ad hominem 1155 00:51:42,620 --> 00:51:39,839 attacks are worthless you must attack 1156 00:51:44,359 --> 00:51:42,630 the argument not not the character of 1157 00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:44,369 the people involved even people who 1158 00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:46,079 attack Rossi for his character is not 1159 00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:48,329 valid it's whether his device works or 1160 00:51:52,219 --> 00:51:49,920 not that would be a great help because 1161 00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:52,229 it would say the ue in going through the 1162 00:51:56,599 --> 00:51:54,209 hundreds of blogs and posts and things 1163 00:51:58,179 --> 00:51:56,609 absolutely and if you if you find 1164 00:52:00,410 --> 00:51:58,189 something that really needs me to answer 1165 00:52:02,059 --> 00:52:00,420 the chances are I won't have seen it 1166 00:52:04,669 --> 00:52:02,069 because there's just two hundreds every 1167 00:52:06,890 --> 00:52:04,679 day so if you can send an email I can 1168 00:52:10,099 --> 00:52:06,900 even give you my email address in Arab 1169 00:52:12,650 --> 00:52:10,109 rice @ gmail.com he in our Bryce @ 1170 00:52:14,749 --> 00:52:12,660 gmail.com let me know and that way I 1171 00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:14,759 content post to reply or if you know 1172 00:52:19,009 --> 00:52:16,529 anyone who's been approached to invest 1173 00:52:20,809 --> 00:52:19,019 money in ecat we'd like to hear about 1174 00:52:22,579 --> 00:52:20,819 that too as part of our inquiry into the 1175 00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:22,589 business side this has already resulted 1176 00:52:28,219 --> 00:52:24,630 in another australian coming forward to 1177 00:52:29,870 --> 00:52:28,229 say that he was approached by soul to 1178 00:52:33,079 --> 00:52:29,880 invest in it and he's got his own story 1179 00:52:34,849 --> 00:52:33,089 I'm not authorized to tell you about 1180 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:34,859 that now except to say that it follows a 1181 00:52:40,219 --> 00:52:37,170 very similar line to that of Dick Smith 1182 00:52:42,799 --> 00:52:40,229 where he became suspicious did some due 1183 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:42,809 diligence and declined to invest but 1184 00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:44,729 nevertheless the pattern was the same so 1185 00:52:49,009 --> 00:52:46,920 I suspect it's quite possible that there 1186 00:52:51,339 --> 00:52:49,019 are people other than the soul in 1187 00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:51,349 Australia who were vying to be 1188 00:52:56,029 --> 00:52:53,910 representatives now you can read more 1189 00:53:01,669 --> 00:52:56,039 about this at the Australian skeptics 1190 00:53:04,969 --> 00:53:01,679 website w skeptics com au including dick 1191 00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:04,979 Smith's offer of 1 million dollars and 1192 00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:06,660 Rossi's 1193 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:10,710 what should we say rebuttal or slap in 1194 00:53:16,820 --> 00:53:13,650 the face or saying no go away or he said 1195 00:53:19,100 --> 00:53:16,830 which surprises us to this very day Ian 1196 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:19,110 the story goes on what a fascinating 1197 00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:21,570 story I'd like to make one closing 1198 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:23,910 remark yeah andrea rossi your goose is 1199 00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:27,530 cooked in his own engine absolutely 1200 00:53:53,060 --> 00:53:51,170 astronomy cast it takes a fact space 1201 00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:53,070 journey through the cosmos as it offers 1202 00:53:57,650 --> 00:53:54,960 listeners weekly discussions on 1203 00:54:00,590 --> 00:53:57,660 astronomical topics ranging from planets 1204 00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:00,600 to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of 1205 00:54:03,860 --> 00:54:02,880 Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela 1206 00:54:06,530 --> 00:54:03,870 gave southern illinois university 1207 00:54:08,420 --> 00:54:06,540 edwardsville this show brings the 1208 00:54:10,850 --> 00:54:08,430 questions of an avid astronomy lover 1209 00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:10,860 directly to an astronomer together 1210 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:12,960 Fraser and I explore what is known and 1211 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:14,490 being discovered about the universe 1212 00:54:19,340 --> 00:54:17,250 around us join us each week as we take a 1213 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:19,350 fax space journey through the cosmos at 1214 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:37,780 thank you for listening through the 1215 00:54:42,819 --> 00:54:40,490 skeptic zone now I was mentioning at the 1216 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:42,829 top of the show this extraordinary 1217 00:54:48,549 --> 00:54:46,490 picture of Bill Gates with a syringe and 1218 00:54:51,309 --> 00:54:48,559 an evil grin and the poor little African 1219 00:54:53,319 --> 00:54:51,319 child in the background if if you follow 1220 00:54:55,809 --> 00:54:53,329 me on Twitter and my twitter handle is 1221 00:54:59,920 --> 00:54:55,819 at skeptic zone you would have seen that 1222 00:55:05,530 --> 00:54:59,930 or dr. H E which handle is at dr. H E 1223 00:55:08,049 --> 00:55:05,540 we've both retweeted that truly truly 1224 00:55:10,030 --> 00:55:08,059 horrifying picture of Bill Gates it's 1225 00:55:12,819 --> 00:55:10,040 just extraordinary but yes I certainly 1226 00:55:16,089 --> 00:55:12,829 recommend that you if you're on Twitter 1227 00:55:18,250 --> 00:55:16,099 you follow that hashtag for news and 1228 00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:18,260 information and from the stop the 1229 00:55:26,410 --> 00:55:21,200 Australian vaccination group about the 1230 00:55:30,130 --> 00:55:26,420 evil goings on of these horrible 1231 00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:30,140 horrible anti-vaxxers words fail me 1232 00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:32,569 sometimes I think we'll try to find out 1233 00:55:39,370 --> 00:55:35,839 a little bit more about this story for 1234 00:55:41,170 --> 00:55:39,380 next week's skeptic zone it should be 1235 00:55:44,339 --> 00:55:41,180 very interesting skeptic zones coming up 1236 00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:44,349 over the next few weeks while I'm away 1237 00:55:51,420 --> 00:55:47,599 visiting Singapore then visiting the 1238 00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:51,430 United Kingdom Scotland and England as I 1239 00:56:00,220 --> 00:55:58,010 make my way to QED QED QED con wow I'm 1240 00:56:02,260 --> 00:56:00,230 really looking forward to that maybe I 1241 00:56:05,710 --> 00:56:02,270 can find some interesting reports to 1242 00:56:08,289 --> 00:56:05,720 file for the skeptic zone along the way 1243 00:56:12,460 --> 00:56:08,299 and we're still on the big countdown of 1244 00:56:15,250 --> 00:56:12,470 course for Tam Las Vegas where as many 1245 00:56:18,099 --> 00:56:15,260 of us the skeptic zone teams possible 1246 00:56:21,010 --> 00:56:18,109 will be there and of course of course 1247 00:56:23,500 --> 00:56:21,020 main art will be there to make a 1248 00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:23,510 nuisance of himself and grab us lots of 1249 00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:26,569 interviews well thank you again for 1250 00:56:31,809 --> 00:56:28,910 listening to the show and for this week 1251 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:31,819 this is Richard Saunders signing off 1252 00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:39,490 you've been listening to the skeptic 1253 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:44,510 zone visit our website at www skeptics